2nite
Posted on Saturday, July 11th, 2009 at 10:56 pmJennifer: You haven’t said that Mary Jane called you. She told me that she would endeavor to do so. Nevertheless, I did sign the release permitting her to talk with you. So, you can call or email her.
Graphic model of the hormone Oxytocin
Mary Jane had a few things to say about the mammalian hormone. I think I told already a little of what she told me.
Anyway, it’s called alot of things. The bonding hormone is one.
I think Mary Jane took off on the topic of oxytocin after we began discussing simultaneous orgasm – the fireworks nature sets off to increase the likelihood of an encore. Yeah, that’s what I’m talking about in therapy, and right here, right now. Not a GP rated post this. But, anyway, she didn’t tell me everything wikipedia says – it is released in birthing, and during breast-feeding. Hmmm. She did say something wikipedia does not say – it’s released when a woman talks with another woman with whom she has a bond. Mother-Daughter. Aunt-Neice. Sister-Sister. Hmmm. So, Ellen’s birth must have been a real rush! And breast-feeding did go on a long time … and there wasn’t alot of … hmpf!
You know, sometimes I really have trouble with the idea that’s central to the program at No Abuse – male priveledge. At No Abuse they’ve added an outer circle to the original Power & Control Wheel created in Duluth – a male priveledge circle. And, of course, this outer circle is absent from the Equality Wheel because there can be no equality if subsumed within a circle of male priveledge. But where is the priveledge when men die earlier than women at every stage of life? And what about that oxytocin?
Joyce Pastorek, the leader of my No Abuse class, looked me straight in the eyes week before last and said, “If you would just pull that energy inward, you would know an incredible new freedom. If you would just stop trying to set everything right, you could have that freedom.” It was a memorable moment, oxytocin or no. A new freedom. A new happiness. Where have I heard that before?
Anyway, she insists the whole BIP comes down to Action-Intent-Belief. If I’m having a bad feeling, then it started with a bad thought. If I’m having a bad thought, then it started with a bad belief. Change the belief, change the thought. Change the thought, change the feeling.
Plutchik's 3D model of emotion
Anger starts with a less-than, or a more-than, thought. So, anger starts when I try to be your hero. Or, when you ask me to be your hero and fix something? Hmmm.
Homework this week is Blaming – Shifting responsibility for my behavior to you, Saying you caused it, Attempting to make you feel guilty, Describing the situation in a manner to convince others it’s your fault.
I am permitted to ask you to help. Got any good examples you want to share?
Are you going to get back to the injunction question? Action-Intent-Belief. What I was hoping to learn was why other options were rejected. I haven’t heard you say, for example, that you rejected relying solely on the “no contact” provisions of the criminal charge because … , that you rejected the option of returning home with a “no hostile contact” provision in the criminal or civil order because … Honestly, Mike Morris told me you wanted the injunction to go on for a year. But, now, you seem to say that isn’t what you wanted. So, look, I don’t need to know what you want. But I do want to tell you that I would like to know. And I don’t need for you to show me any courtesy. But I do have less to stumble over when you do.
Anyway, it was nice hearing from you tonight. Emotionally dependant batterers like me really appreciate contact … though not quite as much as the jolt of oxytocin that follows a good nipple nibble.
David
OK. Now, I’ve read your post. You’re saying good-night. I’m going for a walk. You sound like you’re on the “beam”, centered, and square. There’s plenty I could say, but you’ll work it out best without me.
Why? Why bother with a future when I crossed a line and you crossed another? Sometimes Joyce calls it “trauma bonding”. Sometimes she calls it “genuine love”.
Sleep tight.
Oh, My God! You are SO there! You’ve got me whipped.
simultaneous orgasm: mental hygiene…that term is fresh for me, too. I’m jealous that you have a guide through this…honestly David, I don’t know where to turn. I will give Mary Jane a call and ask her for help in finding someone who can give me what she gives you…the tools and potential for real growth through this. There are classes in DV and support groups, but they are all about being the victim and survivor, not about being a person involved in a relationship. Thanks for sharing more of your conversation with her.
breastfeeding: No, I don’t think Ellen seeing Mars Attacks had anything to do with her weaning that weekend – we may need a “insert humor here” icon. I was gone for three days and she discovered she could do without me. As far as grown up words, I was being sensitive to the words you used in your post. Yes, let’s take grown up responsibility.
Heroes:Did you know that John Cox lives in a condo…has for over 10 years. Being here…doing more than I did before…does make the thought worth considering. I like Mary Jane’s Mosquito Coast story…we like the Mosquito Coast story…but the life of the character Harrison Ford played did not get easier, it’s important to remember that.
controller’s boredom syndrome:I’m afraid I’ll do our uncertain future certain damage if I respond to your comment tonight.
intimacy: square dancing sounds fun…gar fishing…why not. The Happy Hooker. No, I haven’t read it…will it be dangerous to read it alone?
Ellen: I asked Ellen your question, she said, no.
Regarding your comment: …Nor do I hear gratitude for what I’ve done, and for what so many other people have done to give “your solution” a chance…
I don’t have anything good to say about this now. It’s made me cry. While I was happy to have time to correspond with you today and get to some of the posts that I needed to get to, I’m just feeling bad right now…worn out…I have wondered why you would consider coming back to the woman who had you arrested…but I have thought that you would want to move into a healthy relationship with me evenso…I hope that’s what “my solution” is doing for us. I told you I would respond to your Thank You post today too, but I can’t tonight with any clairity. Please forgive me. The things you posted in your Thank You post have been on my mind to and I do thank you for bringing them to the fore so graciously.
Good night for now,
Jen
simultaneous orgasm: I don’t recall how Mary Jand and I got to the subject of sex, orgasm, or oxytocin. I just remember being surprised that she mentionned simultaneous orgasm so casually, as though it were the most common form. It isn’t. And she’s said so. But orgasm, and in particular simultaneous orgasm, is something that you and I have discussed and so I thought it was worth discussing with her. I do remember that discussion of the bonding hormone came up after we got into the subject of sex. It was then that I got stuck on the idea that in birthing, breast feeding, and girl-talk, women do appear to have an advantage. I’m thinking this minute that Mary Jane and I got into all this when she started to tell me about “mental hygiene”. I don’t know that you and I have ever talked about mental hygiene. In fact, I really think the idea is fresh in my experience. Think for yourself – how do you distinquish health and hygiene? One is not the other; hygiene is only a part of health, but there is no good health without good hygiene. And hygiene is something that can be changed. So, to improve hygiene it is important to stimulate some neurochemicals. Mary Jane has asked me to breath in and out through my nose, using my belly and not my chest. She has asked me to listen to a fifteen minute guided meditation each day (the narator sounds like Aunt Deb). And she’s asked me to walk at least 30 minutes a day. This all stirs up the right chemistry. So, I believe it was a discussion of mental hygiene and how it promotes the right brain chemistry that lead us into a discussion of sex, orgasm, and oxytocin.
breastfeeding: The effect of breastfeeding on neurochemistry is God’s fault. The effect of breastfeeding on our sex life is on you. Mutual understanding is order, no doubt. But you got to breast feed, I didn’t. You got that special neurochemical pacifier, I didn’t. And while you were getting that, I was getting what? Your “utilitarian hmp”? That sounds kind of ugly. Can we just use the grown-up words here? And, please, let’s take grown-up resposibility for our sex-life. We make it what We make, not what You make it, or what I make it.
I don’t remember the traumatic attempt to wean Ellen after her first birthday. Were we at home?
I have never, until now, heard any connection made between weaning and Mars Attacks. Wow. Do you think other mothers would use the NY/movie combo, if they heard our story? Ellen has never told me what the worst part of that movie was. I’ve always assumed it was the yodeling.
anger: Angry? When I wrote the post? Hmmm. When was it written? Oh, two weeks ago. Well, gee, it’s hard to say if I was angry at any time while I wrote the post. I doubt it. But I’m sure you can imagine what it’s like waiting two weeks to get a response.
Emotions are in and out at the speed of light. What I’ve felt is irrelevant. What I think is important. But what I believe is everything.
If you have more thoughts or beliefs on this subject, please consider the importance of sharing to your mental hygiene.
heros: Jen, get a condo, or get a man, or get a woman. I don’t hear you being honest about the incredible burden it is just to keep up with all there is to do around the house. Nor do I hear gratitude for what I’ve done, and for what so many other people have done to give “your solution” a chance.
I did learn over the fourth that I fail the “self-care” component of Mary Jane’s wellness check-list. I did push myself as I do often. I did get angry. And I did have no where to turn. So, that weekend, after hearing in BIP class so much about less-than/more-than thoughts, I realized I was trying hard to be more-than in order to permit myself angry less-than thoughts of you. Anyway, if you walk into the bathroom and look-up at the paint peeling over the shower and then turn a sharp ninety degrees to your left, you too might see someone doing the same thing.
Mary told me a story I thought I’d already posted. She said, years ago, when she was a large animal rehabber and not a ‘Wendy” for ‘lost boys’, at the end of a very long day she was in the barn and in the dark looking for a wrench and asking herself, “Do I bury the hog, or fix the plumbing.” She decided to chuck it all, and leave the dishes.
If you don’t chuck it, if I don’t chuck it, we’re going to both need a hero on our side.
Mike Morris: You’re right – clear communication is your responsibility, Morris is not. Your assumptions, in particular, about this process, are also, as you note, your responsibility.
controller’s boredom syndrome: Yes. I’ve experienced controller’s boredom. It’s accompanied by a good bit of anxiety. And anxiety usually requires a large evening meal, with a movie, and a large bowl of popcorn, followed by a voluminous cold, sweet, icy drink, topped with – you know! – a soothing back-rub. Sound familiar? And, yes. I think you are going to be bored with me. You’ll have your way with me. Then you’ll find somebody else. It’s nearly certain.
intimacy: Have you ever tried square dancing? Or, gar fishing? What about Xaviera Hollander’s The Happy Hooker? Ever read that manual on marital bliss? Shower first! Anyway, we have spent alot of time at this today. Thanks.
birds: The older ones are not eating as I’d like. One has a crooked bill. The younger ones are not gaining weight as I would like.
ellen: Do I need to send her a special iCal reminder?
David:
There were a few thing in the post that I hadn’t responded to:
Oxytocin: You mentioned that you thought you told me already a little about the mammalian (bonding) hormone. I don’t recall it…I am wondering though where the discussion of simultaneous orgasm began…I mean…I do know where it begins…but where did it begin between you and Mary Jane…did it start with the discussion of the bonding hormone or something else?
Breastfeeding did put a damper on you know … hmp! for me…not just because it could be stimulating but because my hmps had become utilitarian…and it did go on for awhile because – as I hope you recall – it was our decision to allow it…to let Ellen take the lead after a unsuccessful and traumatic attempt to wean her just after her 1st birthday…she weaned herself after her 5th…after I separated myself from her when I went to New York and after she watched Mars Attacks with you, she never asked for Eaty me Mommy again!
I’m angry with you about this post. Were you angry with me when you posted it?
Privledge. What does it mean to you? And, what about Oxytocin? After reading about it on Wikipedia, in the area of love, it sounds like an equal opportunity mammalian hormone to me:
In a preliminary study, the hormone oxytocin was shown to be associated with the ability to maintain healthy interpersonal relationships and healthy psychological boundaries with other people. The study appears in the July (1999) issue of Psychiatry.
The primary conscious behavior or thought process that increases oxytocin is caring for another. Appreciation, generous touch, gratitude, and emotional connections with others also raise oxytocin levels. In addition, oxytocin appears to be behind many of the health benefits from meditation, massage and acupuncture. We see one of oxytocin’s most powerful effects at birth – when the mother and father bond with their child. At that moment, oxytocin surges causing a rewiring of both parents’ brains so that they will do anything for their little screaming creature. Under ordinary circumstances they remain permanently in love.
Are you taking Oxytocin? Do you mind sharing with me what medications, if any, you are taking?
I am starting to understand the BIP model of Action, Intent, Belief and using it in my thought process, reflecting on a situation – current or past. Too, I’m beginning to understand “context” when it comes to the BIP homework…thanks for helping me with this. Thanks too for asking me to help with the homework…or do my own…it does seem to be an opportunity for disagreement and anger, however, I believe it can also be an opportunity for growth and understanding. I think you have been conscious of responding to me…my BIP answers…in a way that won’t threaten me and will show the progress you are personally making in the program. I appreciate that.
Change the belief, change the thought. Change the thought, change the feeling.
So, anger starts when you try to be my hero. Then I would ask you not to try. I guess this is old news…I’ve seen you work on changing this. I could still get excited watching you let a fish fly from the ocean with your bare hands…and, in your success in designing flights that pass inspection…and to say to you that you are my Hero was a term of endearment…but you can do those things and just be David and still impress the hell out of me. As far as fixing things…the first time you came to the house, I did have a long laundry list of things I wanted you to know about…however, the only thing I believe I asked your help in was the Snapper…the rest was FYI. Too, I remember in an earlier post when I told you I fixed the bird room sink, you commented that you wished I wasn’t so resourceful…still this is the gal you fell in love with and, long ago I made a conscious decision not to nag you about things I could take care of myself. You actually pointed this out to me and I took it to heart. So which is it: Needy wife who drives you crazy with a “honey do list” or resourceful wife who can make it on her own and call you her hero when you bend down and pick up a snake?
I will answer the Injuction questions in my next response to your Thank You post.
Regarding Mike Morris: After you told me that he told you he had to “talk me down from a year,” I was really mad. What was his game? I asked myself. Why was I so trusting to think he would go back to you with what we discussed exactly. I wanted to make an appointment with him to confront him with this information and ask him why he said this. I wanted him to work his 12 step program. I wanted him to apologize to me…to you. That was my initial reaction. Then I did nothing. It was not my intent to do damage to your relationship with him and without knowing what confronting him may do, I decided better of it. Decided that if the opportunity presents itself, I will let Mike Morris know that while he his your attorney, we are both relying on him to present himself to each of us in an honest, forthright manner…and to understand his role as the messenger…to understand what we were, are, entrusting him with. But, more importantly, I have to work my 12 step program and accept that clear communication to you through Mike Morris is my responsibility.
Therapeutic Tidbits: Focus, focus, focus. Why did you tell me Joyce says: Controllers who achieve complete control become so bored they cheat on their partners? Are you bored? Or, do you think I am?
Another Morsel: Intimacy requires working on it.
This is a good one. This brought alot of imagery to my mind:
Working on a chain gang is intimate…but not much fun…sweating it out in the noon day sun…singing about how the man done us wrong…getting parched while waiting for the water boy to come around. But hey…we’re in it together…bonding.
The other image was much more idealistic…much more filled with fantasy…much more me: Two people…us…working side by side in a garden…one offering the other a drink…the other going in to make sandwiches…sweating together in the noon day sun, sharing lunch in the shade, surveying the work as the sun sets…topping the day with a dip in the pool. Worn out…yup…beat…you bet. Closer because of a shared experience. Yes, (focus) yes (focus), yes!
Intimacy requires working on it. I believe that statement to be true. Too, I believe to find oneself in a relationship built on intimacy, the work is sometimes easy and joyful, and sometimes hard and sweaty. What do you think?
Jen
An Essential Crumb:
Emotions are in and out at the speed of light.
Thoughts are slower but still fleeting.
Beliefs are core; a belief one would die for.
Another Morsel:
Mary Jane says intimacy requires working at it.
…
More Therapeutic Tidbits:
Mary Jane says women require much more focus than men to achieve orgasm.
Joyce says controllers who achieve complete control become so bored they cheat on their partners.